I really enjoyed this discussion with Dr. Joe Mercola. You may know him as an expert in fat loss, neurodegenerative disease, and even cancer. He’s also the guy to speak to when it comes to protecting yourself against and mitigating the damages from harmful electromagnetic fields or “EMFs.” Dr. Mercola refers to EMFs as the Tobacco of the 21st century for a good reason. He references strong evidence backed by hundreds of studies that point to the cancerous, neurodegenerative and neuropsychiatric conditions that are caused by EMF exposure. Sadly this information is kept out of the media due to the trillion dollar telecommunications industry. Finally, we tackle the practical steps you can take to protect yourself and optimize your home to reduce exposure. We hope you’ll try some of these suggestions and keep your phone on airplane mode when not in use!.
Dr. Michael Ruscio, DC: Hey everyone, welcome to Dr. Ruscio Radio. This is Dr. Ruscio. Today I’m here with Dr. Joe Mercola. I’ve been watching Dr. Mercola since I was a snot-nosed college student just getting into health care, so it’s really nice to have you here, Joe. I have to personally thank you for everything that you’ve been doing for as long as you’ve been doing it because you were one of the first people that really opened my eyes to the wide breadth of topics in this umbrella of alternative and progressive circles of integrative medicine. Welcome to the show and thank you for your work and thank you for being here.
Dr. Joe Mercola: Thanks for listening and following it and being a leader in your own area. That’s what we need, an army of people in the trenches that’ll help people understand these foundational principles to get away from dangerous medications that don’t in any way, shape, or form treat the root cause of the problem.
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Dr. R’s Fast Facts Summary
What are EMFs?
- Stands for electromagnetic fields
- The radiation that our cell phones (and other wireless electronic devices) give off
Why are EMFs harmful?
- Negatively impact cells on a cellular level via voltage-gated calcium channels
- EMFs cause considerable nuclear DNA damage
- Mitochondria (energy cells) are especially susceptible
- Dr. Martin Pall has done extensive research in this area.
What is the best evidence documenting harm from ‘normal’ EMF exposure
- Bio-initiative report
- Ramazzini Institute in Italy
- NTP Evaluation of Carcinogenicity of Cell Phone Radiation
Conditions associated with EMF exposure
- Cancer, neurodegenerative (Alzheimer’s, Parkinsons, ALS)
- Neuropsychiatric illnesses like depression
There are 3 types of fields
- Radio, electric and magnetic
- The radio frequency fields are related to cell phones and wireless.
- Electrical fields and magnetic fields can be equally problematic
Top Sources of EMFs and how to reduce exposure
- 95% from inside your house
- #1 reduce electric fields in your bedroom
- Fans – are not too bad
- For max safety – unplug everything or turn off circuit breaker at night
- At minimum turn off WiFi at night
- Convert home to wired internet or use wired as much as possible
- #1 reduce electric fields in your bedroom
- Put phone and computer on airplane mode when not in use
- Buy a wired mouse
- Use EMF protected phone case, earbuds, laptop pad, underwear
- Fasting can be helpful – For those that are metabolically flexible (have practiced fasting and ketosis before)
- Periodically use a ketogenic diet
- Reduce exposure when traveling by airplane
- Radio frequency: Acousticom 2
- Aim for a ‘green’ reading = safe
- Only measures radio frequency fields
- Electric: device recommendations in this book The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs
- Magnetic: Tri-Field EMF Meter
- Aim for below 0.3 and look for green reading
More about Dr. Mercola
- Get help with EMF Exposure.
- Get your personalized plan for optimizing your gut health with my new book.
- Healthcare providers looking to sharpen their clinical skills, check out the Future of Functional Medicine Review Clinical Newsletter.
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DrMR: 100%. One of the topics today that we haven’t really discussed on the podcast previously that we’ll be talking about is EMFs. I’m curious to dig into this. Before we launch in, in case anybody hasn’t heard of you before … I’d be surprised if people haven’t because I know you’re very prolific on the internet. But, can you give us a quick primer on your background and then tell us what EMFs are.
DrJM: Sure. I am a board certified family physician. Saw maybe 20-30,000 patients before I transitioned into my presence on the internet because I realized it was a far more effective way to leverage my time, effort and energy to help a lot more people than I could simply by seeing them in person. I’ve been doing that for the last 21 years and for the last 15 years we’ve been the most visited natural health site on the web. Despite Google labeling us as fake news. It’s a challenge to get by those Google restrictions … and they’re not just targeting us.
They’re targeting almost all the natural health sites. If someone is searching for information and strategies not from my site but hundreds of other sites, they’re going to have to search 20, 30 pages down to find it because Google has just shoved everyone down.
DrMR: Yeah. Scary. Then tell us how you got into working with EMFs and for people who haven’t heard of EMFs can you explain what they are?
What Are EMFs
DrJM: Sure. EMF is short for electromagnetic fields and basically describes the type of radiation that we’re all exposed to. It ranges anywhere from a few hertz, cycles per second, to many gigahertz or tens or even hundreds of gigahertz which would be into the Wi-Fi frequency and your cell phone frequencies. I’ve been aware of the issue of EMFs for probably two decades and was quite familiar with the literature saying that the impacts were non-thermal meaning that the damage to our biology is not caused by thermal effects and that is what interestingly the safety standards are based on.
What the heck does that mean? Well, first of all, we’ve been exposed to unnatural types of EMFs for about 140 years, between 130 and 140 years when they first developed electricity in the 1880s. It was just in an area of New York and then eventually spread. Then we’ve developed radio and then television, but the big ones that we’re all exposed to now are these microwave radiations. Those frequencies were first implemented in the Second World War in the technical application of radar. Then they used those frequencies because they noticed they could heat materials and that’s what they used to make the first microwave ovens. In fact, you may remember they called them the Amana Radarange. That wasn’t a really good PR marketing material so they changed it to the microwave which was a lot better, more widely accepted.
What the microwaves do is they vibrate ions inside and out cells very rapidly and typically a few billion times a second and that vibration creates heat. The safety standards in fact on your cell phone and pretty much any wireless device you use are based on this thermal effect. In fact, they are correct. Your cell phone will not cause thermal damage, at least most won’t. Any significant thermal damage, so it’s not going to heat your tissue up. But what they fail to mention is that’s not how they cause biological problems. I never understood this until I was exposed really about two years ago to Martin Pall’s work. Have you heard of him before?
DrMR: No, I haven’t.
DrJM: He is a biophysicist, I think he went to Cal Tech and he’s a professor emeritus now at the University of Washington and really good in biochemistry. He wrote a landmark paper in 2013 that really identified how these EMFs actually caused biological damage non-thermally. It has to do with the voltage-gated calcium channels, which are channels with inside almost all our cells that regulate the flow of calcium from outside the cell electrically to inside the cell intercellularly. So, the calcium concentration is normally much higher outside the cell. These channels modulate the influx of calcium and they usually do it from an electrical-dependent fashion. Basically, this is one of the ways that calcium channel blockers work. They influence that flux of calcium into the cells. In fact, that’s how Pall figured this out. There were two dozen studies he put together that showed that when the use calcium channel blockers on cells in vitro and small animals, that they were actually able to mitigate many of the damage that EMFs were producing.
They realized, or Pall realized and speculated and put that position paper out in 2013, that the EMF damage was in large part regulated by the voltage-gated calcium channels. This is the interesting thing, the point I wanted to get to is that these voltage-gated calcium channels are about 7.2 million times more sensitive to the EMF radiation than the ions inside and out the cell that vibrate and that’s the thermal standard that our safety standards are based on. The safety standards were only off by a factor of 7.2 million.
DrMR: Pretty big margin there, yeah.
DrJM: Even with those standards, if you look … no one ever does this. I don’t think I ever did it. But, if you look at the material that comes with your phone or look it up online in a PDF. Look up your phone and look up the instruction operating manuals. It will say to hold it like five to 10 millimeters away from your body part. Certainly your head. So, even they recognize that it’s potentially dangerous and that’s on a limited flawed model. Have you ever read the book Merchants of Doubt or seen the movie?
DrMR: I have not.
DrJM: That is one you want to put on your list. It’s really good. It’s an older book but you can speed it up… So well done. It took like five or seven years to write the book. It’s the biggest explanation of how the tobacco industry was able to essentially manipulate the public opinion for decades. Despite, and this is the very fascinating component of this, despite having the federal regulatory agencies, the FDA, the surgeon general, the CDC, the EPA, all coming out unequivocally saying that smoking causes cancer.
They withheld significant changes for three decades before anything happened even though all the federal regulatory agencies were in agreement. They did this by the title of the book, Merchants of Doubt. They cast doubt. They used the aspect of the scientific method which is to always be skeptical and question the results, but they extended it to ludicrousness that was beyond belief. Then they created this doubt in the minds of the public that allowed them to extend their sale of these dangerous products for many years.
Now, the reason I mention that as a preface is that we have the same scenario here five decades later except it’s exponentially worse. Worse in what way? Well, the tobacco industry is certainly well funded and heavily lobbied Congress. But, they are literally a pittance compared to the influence and the lobbying power of the telecommunications industries which is in the trillions, trillions of dollars.
DrMR: Because everyone uses a phone but not everyone smokes so you can easily piece that together.
DrJM: The funds that come for this are in the trillions of dollars where the funds for tobacco were only in the billions. The end result of that is they’re able to really effectively control the federal regulatory agencies. You have the chief lobbyist of the telecommunications industry, Tom Wheeler, the chief lobbyist, okay, not a scientist, a lobbyist. He was appointed the Commissioner of the FCC. How much more ridiculous can it be, the fox is guarding the hen house.
Every federal regulatory agency is in collusion with the telecommunications industry so there’s no federal government that’s going to come in and say that this is dangerous. It just isn’t happening. If you go back 50 years when they did say it was a problem, they still were able to delay it for 30 years. It’s a massive issue. You’re not going to hear any public health official or certainly any federal regulatory agency tell you that there’s a problem with EMFs.
They’re in control of the telecommunications industry. That’s not a fallacy, you can easily look this information up. There are thousands and thousands of studies showing the damage. The BioInitiative Report is really a great compilation. I think it’s 1700 pages long with thousands and thousands of studies documenting this for the last 40 or 50 years, all the potential problems. So, this is not new and thankfully with Martin Pall we now have the biological mechanisms which gives us some really interesting foundational strategies to mediate some of the damage that EMFs can cause.
Mitochondria & Nuclear DNA Damage
DrMR: Now, how do the mitochondria tie into this because I’ve heard that the mitochondria is one of the mechanisms or underlying pieces of cellular machinery that are fairly negatively impacted by EMFs? Is it a subset of the voltage-gated calcium channels if you go upstream to that they impact the mitochondria? Or, are these operating on separate mechanisms?
DrJM: No, no. These calcium channel receptors are in all the cell membranes and mitochondrial membranes. Now, obviously the mitochondrial have double membranes and the nuclear membrane. Here’s where it really gets interesting because I think you’ve studied molecular biology fairly well so I feel comfortable going into this with you. When did you graduate?
DrMR: Let’s see here, 2009.
DrJM: 2009, okay, so you might have been taught this. Certainly, when I went to school I graduated in ’82, the stuff I’m going to talk about was not yet discovered for decades. We know about the oxidative theory of aging by Denham Harmon which I think is 1952-53, where this oxidative stress causes the damage. That’s when people were really big on taking antioxidants. But, the problem is that you don’t want to indiscriminately control or diminish all free radicals because of the free radicals are very important biological signaling agents. If you indiscriminately diminish them you’re going to impair some important biological functions.
So why do I talk about that? There’s a lot of background to answer that question because they do cause mitochondrial damage but I think even more important is that they cause nuclear DNA damage. I have to go into a little background to explain how that’s done. Typically, the oxidative theory of damage was mostly mitochondrial. That most all of the oxidative stress is produced in the electron transport chain, the production of ATP and essentially develop the food as fuel. It’s a source of electrons. It comes in, these electrons are put through a biological process that gets transported through the ETC, electron transport chain. Ultimately, some of them leak out of these electrons and they go to develop hydrogen peroxide which is then mitigated by superoxide dismutase and then it puts out hydroxyl free radicals if it goes to the next step which is mitigated by catalase. But essentially this hydroxyl free radicals is the most pernicious free radical in your body.
The problem is and most people understand this, is that the hydroxyl free radical generated in the mitochondrial inner membrane, is very short lived. It only lives a billionth of a second. The consequence of that is it can’t travel very far. It only can travel the distance of about a protein or so. It cannot escape even the mitochondria to go into the cytoplasm and then, of course, to travel to the nucleus.
The reason why this is a big issue, this oxidative stress is when we go back to EMF I mentioned that the voltage-gated calcium channels are open releasing all these calcium ions into cyberspace. Then what happens when you have that increased calcium levels you increase nitric oxide and superoxide, SO. The superoxide combines with nitric oxide and it forms peroxynitrite. Have you heard of peroxynitrite before?
DrJM: That is the most important thing. Now, the peroxynitrite lives nine billion times longer than hydroxyl free radical. So it has more than enough time to go through the mitochondrial membrane into the cytoplasm and into the nuclear DNA and cause damage to nuclear DNA. Our mitochondria just have enormous repair mechanism. They get damaged all the time. This is just an artifact.
In fact, this is one of the reasons why you want to have a cyclical ketogenic diet and not have a lot of high carbs and you want to be metabolically flexible at least not high carbs all the time continuously like most of the American public does. Because that’s going to generate excess hydroxyl free radicals and oxidative stress and damage your mitochondria.
The danger of the EMF is it doesn’t only cause mitochondrial damage, it causes nuclear DNA damage very similar to ionizing radiation. In fact, the damage that the EMFs cause is in many ways almost identical to X-rays and flying at 35,000 feet.
DrMR: That’s pretty substantial.
DrJM: Yeah, it is. Fortunately, there are ways that you can mitigate against it.
DrMR: I want to come to those methods in a moment, but one thing I’m asking. I’m asking this more for people who are a bit more conservative, a bit more skeptical. What’s the best evidence that we have to document damage? Perhaps this is sort of a tough game because some of this information or research may be suppressed or just shunned due to the factors you outlined earlier. What’re some of the best data we have?
DrJM: Oh, there’s a lot of good studies done. There are literally thousands of studies. I said the best report on this is the BioInitiative Report.
DrMR: We’ll try to link that and put that in the notes.
DrJM: There are even newer studies that have been published within the last year like the Ramazzini Institute in Italy did excellent studies. There’s a NTP study, National Toxicity Program that was published that showed definitely the increased risk of cancers. But then it was squashed and they changed the head investigator and then they whitewashed or watered up the findings. This is exactly what you’d predict that the industry is going to change this.
It’s very similar, it’s almost identical in fact to tobacco. Now, you could have said well what’s the evidence that tobacco causes cancer, right? Ask me this in 1960s assuming we were both alive at the time and communicate well intelligently. This would have been the same response because tobacco, smoking cigarettes does not kill you in a week. It doesn’t kill you in a month or year. It takes decades and EMF exposure is real similar.
If you think about it, even though we’ve had these exposure being relatively minor to electrical fields which is a whole other more complex issue and then radio waves. The microwave exposure, the pervasive exposure that we’ve had has only existed for the most part less than two decades. Think about it. Did you get a cell phone in the 20th century? Most people didn’t.
DrMR: I’ve had one now since I was gosh about 18, 19 probably.
DrJM: I don’t know when you were born but was that in the 20th century that you got your cell phone?
DrMR: It was probably 1996.
DrJM: Okay, so you were an early adopter because that was about when they first became commercially available and they weren’t $10,000 and the size of a small loaf of bread. Most people listening probably didn’t get their first cell phone until 2000. If they did maybe it was the late ’90s, maybe 1998. That’s 20 years. Even then if you remember, it was expensive. They didn’t have these unlimited minutes or texting. They weren’t on their phone all the time. They weren’t sleeping with their phone like most of our children are underneath their pillow when it’s on.
DrMR: The thing that scares me is when women tuck their phone into their bra. I just cringe when I see that.
DrJM: Yeah, and where do they tuck it in? They tuck it in in the upper inner quadrant. In the most common area for breast cancer is upper outer quadrant but where do these women wind up getting the cancers? Upper inner which is very, very uncommon unless they’re putting a cell phone there.
Conditions Associated With EMF
DrMR: Okay, so cancer is one. Are there a few other conditions or symptoms or diseases that you think are most tightly associated with EMF exposure?
DrJM: Oh, absolutely.
DrMR: Neurodegenerative I’m assuming?
DrJM: Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, ALS. Neuropsychiatric illnesses like I don’t think we have too many people in this country with depression now do we? That would be one, anxiety. But, here’s another common one that’s frequently overlooked is people with arrhythmias because these voltage-gated calcium channels have the highest density in neurological tissue so you’d absolutely predict impacts in the brain, but also in the conductive tissue of your heart. If you have an atrial arrhythmia such as AFIB or atrial flutter, you got to look in your EMF exposure because that’s probably a massively contributing factor if not the primary factor.
DrMR: I have a friend that was just diagnosed with that. I’ll make sure to pass this along to him because he’s very concerned.
3 Types Of Fields
DrJM: Oh yeah, you’ve got to be almost obsessive with this too because the exposures are so pervasive. That “Oh yeah, I know this,” well then you got to get your fields down a very low level, especially while you’re sleeping. There are three types of fields. There are the radio frequency fields. There are the electric fields, and there are magnetic fields. The radio frequency fields are the ones we’ve been talking about with the cellphones and wireless. Electrical fields and magnetic fields can be equally problematic.
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Sources of EMF
DrMR: Let’s go into some of the sources. I know that you say that 95% come from inside your home, and I’ve actually been going through and trying to mitigate my exposure and I have questions. Like a lot of people, I think, sleep with a fan in their bedroom, and I wonder, is that one of the biggest rocks for us to try to move or is that a small rock? Can you help us kind of codify what are the most important to start with?
DrJM: You bring up a good point. What I mentioned is that most people think “Well why should I do anything about this? I live in an apartment building, there are all these people have their WI-FI routers on, and what difference does it make?”
Well, it’s related to the distance of that exposure from your body. Usually, you have most control inside your home. When you put a WI-FI router, especially in the room that you spend a lot of time in, or your bedroom, god forbid, you are essentially putting a cellphone tower into your house. Now how many of us would do that? No one! Because they know it’s dangerous in cellphone towers. They wouldn’t want to be even close to it or have their house close to one, but that’s what you do when you have a WI-FI router. So the first step and the most important is to really stop your WI-FI. I mean you got to turn it off at night.
DrMR: Great to know.
DrJM: There’s no way you want the thing on at night, and there are easy, simple, radio frequency control switches that you can buy so that you don’t have to walk out of your bed and go to the other room. You can just press a button, and it turns it off. It’s like less than $25 on Amazon.
DrMR: Oh, so it’s like a little remote control? That you can use to flip it on and off?
DrJM: Yeah, you just put the switch in between the plug and the power outlet where your wires plugged into. That’s second best though. So go ahead.
DrMR: So just something I’ve been doing where I bought a long cable to run directly from my modem to my computer, my router to my computer, and then my wireless router has a little power button on it. So when I’m in a position where I don’t need it, I flip it off. If I’m doing anything from my home office, or the kitchen table or the living room floor, because I’ve talked about how I try to email on the floor because it really helps open up your hips when you sit on the floor for a while. I can be plugged in for that. Now there’s sometimes where I’m in a weird position where I don’t have great wired access, and so I flip the switch back on. Then at night time, I just unplug the whole TV/entertainment unit completely. For me, that seems to be a fairly low barrier to entry method. Do you think that’s doing a decent job at reducing exposure?
DrJM: Oh absolutely. There’s no question. The beautiful thing about this is you didn’t have to guess, you can actually measure this. Imagine that! You can measure it. There’s a device you can get, one of my favorites, there are literally hundreds of these devices, but you want to get the sweet spot because you’re not a professional, you don’t need to spend five or ten thousand dollars to get this equipment, but you can go and look for the Acousticcom 2. It’s about $150, but it’s on a very obscure website. Really hard to find, so you might want to get a pencil and paper when I say it, okay? You ready?
DrMR: Yeah, please, go ahead.
DrMR: Okay, great. I will put the link to that. That was one of the questions I also wanted to ask you was how can you measure these things.
DrJM: Yeah now, now understand it’s only measuring radio frequency fields. Which is what you talked about with the WI-FI, it’ll measure your cellphone exposure, your WI-FI, any wireless device, for the most part, communicates on those frequencies. It measures them from I think a few hundred, might be a thousand, I think it’s a thousand hertz to about eight thousand gigahertz. It goes up to about eight gigahertz.
DrJM: I forget where it starts, but it measures the important radio frequency waves. So you do that, and then you find, it’ll give you, the beautiful thing about this, it has an audio feedback. So the louder it is, and the more rapid it goes is it tells you how serious it is. It also has a light field. It goes all the way from green to no color at all.
Which is what you want. What you want is like less than point zero one volts per meter, all the way up to six volts per meter, which is like red danger.
DrMR: Is it pretty obvious when someone is using that device what to shoot for? Like, do they need to know certain levels?
DrJM: No, they just want to go into green. It’s really easy.
DrMR: Okay, so aim for green. Perfect.
DrJM: Yeah, because there’s a number of different indexes. There are milli-watts per square centimeter, there are volts per meter, there’s probably about four or five that you can, and there are tables you can look up to figure it out. This meter just makes it dead simple.
How To Protect From EMF
Then you’ll figure it out. You go around your house and you find all these hidden sources you had no idea that were there. Like here’s one thing, so you think your computers wired in, you’re wired into the internet, okay on our desktop. Most people don’t realize, it doesn’t matter, you got to actually put your desktop in airplane mode, otherwise, you’re still blasting yourself. The devils in the details and the meter will tell you what your exposures are. The most important time is when you’re sleeping at night. When your body’s in rest and repair mode. So you really, that’s the last time you want to be blasted with wireless radiation.
DrMR: I’m putting the computer, thank you for reminding me, and I’m kicking myself because I’m not in airplane mode and I’m afraid to switch it on because I’m afraid it’s going to kill our recording. I’m pretty sure that it won’t because I’ve been on the internet before, but I won’t do it now, but for the audience that’s something I’ve also been mindful of, is trying to switch my computer onto airplane mode whenever I’m plugged in.
DrJM: Yeah, now when you’re doing it, and you have to do the same thing with the notebook too. It doesn’t matter, even though you are plugged in. What you were doing with your wireless router was commendable, and is the first step, but the next step is to, when you’re really serious like your friend with his arrhythmia should be, is to make an investment. Call your local home theater specialist, because these guys typically know how to install wiring, and then have them wire your house with ethernet cable. And then make sure that you get a router that doesn’t have any WI-FI. No WI-FI.
When you need WI-FI you can use your phone and turn it on, you know for like if you need it for your iPad or something, for a minute. Then you have to get ethernet adapters for all your devices that you’re going to use. This internet of things, they’re predicting I think a trillion devices that are going to be hooked up to the internet. I mean they want to hook every human being up let alone every, you know, hundreds of different devices in your house. We’re just going to be flooded with this radiation. It will take us literally decades, 20-30, maybe 40 years before the results are so stunningly obvious, you’ll say “how did we miss this?” By then it’ll be too late for most people.
DrMR: Right. So you talked about a radio frequency device, about electric and magnetic? Are there a couple devices there that can be easy to do the home assessment?
DrJM: Yeah, I like, the same company that makes Acousticcom also makes an electric field. I don’t have the name of that one, but I like that device for that too. For magnetic, the Tri-Field is a pretty interesting one. It’s called Tri-Field because it measures three EMF ranges, which would be radio frequency, electric and magnetic. The electric and radio frequencies on the Tri-Field is pretty horrendously inaccurate. Not very sensitive. It’s okay for the magnetic fields.
It’s about $150 or so. It’s an analog meter, it goes up and down, and for the most part, it’ll show you where the magnetic fields are. You want to typically be below 0.3 milligauss. Ideally.
Typically things like a refrigerator or these motors, like if your headboard is behind the wall and there’s a refrigerator on, you’ve got a big problem. You know, and you’re sleeping in these high, maybe 25 gauss field.
DrMR: So you really want to start with your bedroom.
DrJM: The bedroom’s the most important. The bedroom or wherever you spend a lot of time. Like I have a home office, so I’m literally, most of my time is, actually I spend more time in my home office than I do in my bedroom. Those two rooms, whatever rooms you’re spending time in, if it’s a house, it’s going to be your kitchen. You know wherever you’re spending time, you want that to be pretty close to ideal as possible.
DrMR: Got you. For the magnetic measuring device from Acousticom, is there a certain reading…
DrJM: Well Acousticom doesn’t have a magnetic one as far as I know. It’s just a radio frequency field.
DrMR: Okay, is there a certain device there? I’m thinking of our audience who is very new to this, so if we can give them specifics to purchase that.
DrJM: I forget the name of the company that makes Acousticom, but just look up that company and then you put electric meter, and it should come up. There’s a number of them I know and that’s okay. I like it because it has the same sort of analog display where the lights go up like a Christmas tree.
I failed to mention on the Acousticom is that it’s an analog device so the sound that you hear when you put the audio on, and the batteries last a long time, I don’t think I’ve changed my battery for two years. The sound that you hear actually represents the type of device that’s emitting the signal. So a cell phone would give a characteristic sound versus a cellphone tower versus a WI-FI router. They all give very character, there’s like a dozen or more different frequencies.
They have examples of them on the site so you can, maybe just on Google you can type it in, you can hear what they sound like. So that you, it gives you a clue as to what’s going on. It’s like a Geiger counter, so you know, you walk around your house and the Acousticom, basically has three different axes, XY and Z, so it’s possible, usually that you could be in one axis. So typically if you want to fine tune it, you’ve got to go in all three axes. Where the Tri-Field I’m pretty sure it’s a three-axis meter.
DrMR: Okay, and so for people listening we’ve got a few of the names here and readings to aim for, like green or below 0.3, and we’ll make sure to get all those refined for you so we’ll kind of give you an easy on-ramp. If you don’t have it all right now from the audio, we’ll get that put into our fast facts.
DrJM: Yeah, and this is just an overview. For more information the best simple book, a primer for most people, it’s written by a lay person and his name is Nick Pineault, and I think it’s The Tinfoil Guide to EMF. That’s available on Amazon as a Kindle or a print copy. He did a really good job on helping people understand, because I mean we’ve only got a limited time here, so we can’t cover all the topics. People are going to have a lot of questions we’re not going to address.
DrMR: Right. It’s awesome to have a resource for people. Okay good. What are some other sources to be careful with? Like the bedroom fan, is that a bad idea? Should people get rid of that?
DrJM: No, no. I have a bedroom fan. I don’t use it, I turn the electricity off in my bedroom.
DrMR: Right. So that’s what I’m asking, for the person who likes to have that hum in the background would you say it’s not worth having that fan five to eight feet away from you for that hum, and maybe they should just get used to some earplugs or whatever?
DrJM: It depends on your circumstances, you have to measure it to see how much of an issue it was. Typically they aren’t, but up to a third of the homes in America have wiring errors, in other words the electricians didn’t know what they were doing and they didn’t ground the home properly, so any time you put a load on a circuit it’s going to create these voltage transits which are sometimes called dirty electricity. Which can be highly problematic. That’s where the fan could be an issue, so you don’t know, you have to measure it. If everything was wired correctly and the fan’s, you know, six foot above you, probably isn’t going to be much of an issue.
DrMR: If you unplug everything, let’s say you have bad wiring, but you unplug everything at night, is the bad wiring no longer an issue?
DrJM: Well, unless you live in New York, it is unless you live in New York or Chicago. Do you know why?
DrJM: Would you like to?
DrMR: Yeah, please.
DrJM: Greedy trade unions. So what do greedy trade unions do? They change the residential building code to commercial code requiring electrical wiring to be put in metal conduit. The artifact of what happens when you put electrical wires in metal conduit, you’ve created a Faraday cage, and electrical fields will not come out. They essentially cancel each other out. So essentially you only have electrical fields, and this is actually, for most every place in the country true, it’s the commercial code. It’s for safety, for fire hazards-
DrMR: So this is a good thing, right, for New York and Chicago?
DrJM: Definitely a good thing, yeah absolutely. The bad thing is you have to pay for it extra.
It winds up being a good thing, and that’s the way you should build your house, with metal conduit. At least I believe so. In those scenarios when you’re in a hotel room, or if you’re in Chicago or New York, or you built your home with metal conduit, then you can unplug everything and you’re okay because there are no fields. If that’s not the case the fields are coming right through the wall at you. Even though it’s unplugged, but that is a good strategy and I do it all the time. When I travel, I pull every plug out that’s within 10 feet of my body.
DrMR: Now how does that compare to some people just flip their circuit breaker, you know, that kind of same/same, or what would you say would be the better of the two?
DrJM: It’s similar. I do the same thing too. I also, because I live in a home, I used to live in Chicago which I think probably explained some of the benefits I got. We didn’t know it at the time, but you didn’t have exposure to high electrical and magnetic fields because of that. I live in Florida now, so the home I purchased, I mean if I would have built a home I certainly would have, knowing what I know now, I would have built it with metal conduit. It doesn’t have that, so the fields come through. The only way to stop that is to turn off the electricity to it. Then you still can be problematic but that gets into more sophisticated and advanced stuff that I don’t really have time to go over now with the dirty electricity that Dave Stetser and Sam Milham, who’s an MPH. Masters of Public Health. An epidemiologist.
DrMR: Okay so, we’ve talked about some remediation strategies, what would you say are some of the lowest hanging fruit items for people? Maybe we can circle back also to, I know you’ve talked about fasting and ketogenic diets as one way to help, so what are some of the easiest, most accessible interventions?
DrJM: Well a simple one, understanding that your cell phone, and you alluded to it earlier with the woman putting it in her bra, the guys are no damn different, they put the phone on in their back pocket, or in their front pocket. I mean that’s just an absolute prescription for disaster. There is no way, unless you have a life-threatening emergency, that you should keep your phone on when you’re wearing it on your body. I even take it the next step because you can still have radiation coming out of that thing, because you know that the government has that capacity, so not only is my phone in airplane mode, and I’ll tell you, you know what the benefit of doing that is? Guess how often I charge my phone?
DrMR: Yeah, you have way better battery life, and you don’t get interrupted. I’ve been doing that quite frequently.
DrJM: I charge my phone once a week.
DrMR: Yeah. Your battery life is way better when you’re in airplane mode. Absolutely.
DrJM: Then, even though it’s in airplane mode I still, if I’m going to wear it like I do every day when I walk in the beach, I put it in a Faraday bag. So nothing comes out. For some of the rare, I mean once or twice a year, you know, I had to open the garage or I forgot to turn it in airplane mode, then it’s in the Faraday bag so it’s a double safeguard, so I never put it on my body when it’s not in airplane mode.
DrMR: What about something like EMF shielding underwear?
DrJM: Yeah, well you got to remember the shielding only works if it’s like a Faraday case. When I travel I sleep in a Faraday bag. A sleeping bag.
DrMR: I know you were talking about developing those for sale on your website.
DrJM: Yeah, it’s going to be available hopefully within a year. I’m pretty sure. We’ve been, normally they would be well over $1000 and we’re trying to get it down to under $300 or so. So it’s been a challenge to do and get the design right and everything, we’re on like our fourth or fifth prototype for it.
DrMR: For someone who works in a busy office building and they’re probably getting bombarded, let’s say it’s a woman with a family history of breast cancer or a guy who’s worried about his fertility, would you recommend the woman get like a, I think they have bras that are lined, or the male get underwear? Do you think it’s worth it?
DrJM: Well I’m telling you the Asians understand this, and even if you go onto Amazon and you look at this stuff you’ll see that most of them are from Asia. Almost every pregnant woman in Asia is wearing these EMF protectors over their bellies. I mean it’s standard. I mean that is the standard process that they’re doing now. This is not something they have to convince them, they believe it and they’re doing it. There’s only 1.2 billion Chinese, what do they know?
DrMR: Right. I don’t know much about how prevalent WI-FI is, but you know… Probably super prevalent, I mean they love tech, right?
DrJM: Yeah. I’m actually interviewing the guy who is the former president of Google China, Kai-Fu Lee I think his name is. He was a brilliant guy and talks about, I forget the name of his book, but it’s really opened your eyes about how rapidly China’s advancing in technology. I mean they’re going to be the U.S. in AI, from everything I’ve read it seems like they’re heading to do that. Anyway, that’s a tangent.
Wear protective clothing. When I travel I wear EMF pants. Then an EMF undershirt.
DrMR: Okay, I know you’ve talked about supplemental magnesium and also molecular hydrogen, are those fairly impactful interventions?
DrJM: Remember I said that the damage from ionizing radiation is very similar to the damage from EMF. Even though they don’t want you to believe that. No credible conventional research or public health official would agree with that statement I just made. I can guarantee you that but doesn’t mean it’s not true. Because ionizing radiation is a well-accepted carcinogen, okay? Class 1A, whereas cellphones are recognized as a class 2B by the World Health Organization in 2011. It’s also a 1A, they just don’t recognize it primarily because of industry influence. You can use the same strategies that you used to protect yourself against x-rays, or when you’re flying. I bet you would like to know the optimum way to reduce your damage from your flights because we met a Paleo where I think I learned this since that meeting. So I didn’t share that at Paleo FX. So you’d like to know that right?
DrMR: I would, please. Illuminate us.
DrJM: Something that you can do, first of all, you have to be metabolically flexible. Which means you have to be able to fat as your primary fuel. If you’re just eating the conventional American diet this isn’t going to work for you. So you got to go into strict ketosis for a few weeks, and then transition to cyclical ketosis. The strategy is when you go on a plane is that you don’t eat from the day before. It becomes a little bit of a challenge when you have a late flight, but if maybe you had a late dinner or, just try to get at least 18 hours of fasting under your belt, and if it’s over 24 hours it’s even better because you know, and I’m sure you’ve done fasting before, that when you don’t eat for that long you’re generating quite a bit, significant ketones, right?
Yeah, so why do you want to be having ketones in your blood when you’re flying? And I didn’t know this until earlier this year when I learned it from Richard Veech. Have you heard of Veech before?
DrMR: No, I haven’t.
DrJM: Richard Veech, he’s a cantankerous old guy. He’s probably in his 80s. But, he’s probably the world expert in ketones. He’s an NIH fellow. Yeah, he’s written a lot about this stuff. And, he really described the mechanism of how ketones mitigate damage from ionizing radiation. It does it a number of ways. One is that the ketones increase NADPH. That’s the cellular battery, the battery of your cell. The battery of your cell is not the mitochondria, it’s NADPH. And by being a battery, it means it’s a reservoir of electrons. And why is that important? Because, your intracellular antioxidants like glutathione and vitamin C, once they are used, they become useless, and in some cases even worse than useless, they become toxic. So, you then you need to recharge them like you recharge your battery.
DrMR: So, the rationale behind the Truniagen, some, of the NAD…
DrJM: Well, it’s a little bit different. I mean, yes. Because, it’s the family of coenzymes that are the NAD, NAD plus NADH, and a NADPH, which is a good guy, and I think plus is a good guy, then NADP. So when you oxidize NADPH, which is what happens when it donates the electrons to these antioxidants like vitamin C and glutathione, then it becomes oxidized. When you take the ketones, because they’re only four carbon fats, they penetrate, they go through basically every cell membrane in your body real easily. There are these mono carboxylate transfers. They go right through the membrane and go into the cell and they recharge NADPH, which is crucial. But, you’re also increasing NAD, especially if you’re fasting. Because just by fasting you’re going to increase your NAD levels by 30%.
Now yes, you can take exogenous ketones, but they’re very pricey. I mean, I’m not talking about ketone salts, I’m talking about ketone esters. They’re about a dollar a gram. There are a few companies that make it like Human is one.
DrMR: Are they the one that makes that Ketone ade? Is that the same company?
DrJM: I don’t know, it could be. I’d have to look it up because I don’t use them. I just use endogenous ketones, rather than exogenous and I let my body make it themselves. You’re going to save like 15, 30 dollars, maybe 50 dollars. Because you can easily get your ketone levels up. And if you’re fasting, you could take some MCT oil, especially the C8, and you’ll raise your ketone levels another millimole or two.
And especially, if you’re not moving around a lot, just sitting in a plane. So, you get high ketone levels, you increase your NAD. And the reason that’s so important, these ketones are also histone deacetylase inhibitors. So, they radically reduce inflammation and they increase FOXO3A, which increases all these other internal antitoxins.
The reason why you want to have high NAD, is because there’s this enzyme that repairs the NAD damage inside the nucleus. And it’s called PARP, which is short for poly ADP ribose polymerase. So, you can damage your cell with ionizing radiation, right? But, your body has a system to repair it. The problem is, this system, this PARP system, guess what it’s fuel is? NADP plus. And it is the largest intracellular consumer of NADP plus. So, we all know now… Well, not all, but the most literate people in this new area understand that high NADP plus levels is a good thing to have. And that’s why taking things like nicotinamide riboside, or even simple niacin can be useful. I do every day myself.
Not only is it useful to increase your NADP plus, but you also want to decrease the consumption. Because, if you decrease NADP consumption, by default, you’re increasing your NAD levels. So one of the biggest users in the intracellular space is this PARP enzyme. So when you increase NAD, you’ll have fuel so they can repair any DNA damage, that’s inevitable when you’re exposed to any ionizing radiation or wireless radiation.
DrMR: Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, so fasting is one, and/or ketogenic dieting another?
DrJM: Yeah. And then you can mention molecular hydrogen, and there’s a number that’s one easy strategy. Especially, to do in a plane. Because you can get tablets that do that. Well, we don’t know precisely the mechanism that works, but it clearly is very useful. Especially, for neurodegenerative diseases and things like autism. But, for this ionizing radiation damage, it will selectively sort, of a hermetic response antioxidant. So, we believe that it activates the NRF2 pathway. Which I think knocks off keep one. Which then, activates NRF2 to release its antioxidant response when it’s going to catalyze the production of these antioxidants from the DNA.
DrMR: I read one study showing that molecular hydrogen could facilitate mitochondrial function which may just be a by-product of reducing…
DrJM: Oh it does so many good things. Where they’ve studied that initially? Japan, Asia. So that’s, where all the research is. One of my good friends is Tyler Le Baron and he’s the head of the Molecular Hydrogen Institute. And he’s actually publishing a paper real soon on the mechanism of how molecular hydrogen works. So, it’s hopefully coming out within the next month or so. But, stay tuned for that. And it’s something that I think is very useful, and the beautiful thing about it, unlike antioxidants that I eluded to. It’s a hermetic one so that if your body isn’t being stressed oxidatively, and you don’t have any damage, it’s not going to do a darn thing. It just like hangs around and disappears. But, if you’re under stress then it ramps up these antioxidants and helps you combat the damage. It’s just incredibly interesting.
You would love this mechanism too, because of your interest in gastroenterology. This is one of the things that captured it for me. For people who have hepatic encephalopathy what’s one of the standards of treatment that’s been used for decades? It’s very safe.
DrMR: Off the top of my head, I’m not sure.
DrJM: Lactulose. You ever heard of it?
DrMR: Oh yeah, we use lactulose as part of the lactulose test, it just …
DrJM: Absolutely. Well, guess what happens? During my training, I trained at the University of Chicago, I saw a lot of terminally ill alcoholics right? I saw a lot of hepatic encephalopathy, they were just in a coma. You give them this lactulose and they come out of the coma. Like no one knew, how the hell does that work? Lactulose is just a simple sugar, right? It’s a non-digestible sugar, you give them it, and it wakes them up. How did that happen? Well, it turns out the lactulose feeds the bacteria in your gut that make molecular hydrogen.
DrMR: No kidding? I never heard of that.
DrJM: Yeah. Yeah and then, so you say, “Well that’s idle speculation.” Well, they studied this and they actually killed the bacteria in the gut that make molecular hydrogen, treated the same patients with lactulose and no benefit, none.
DrMR: There’s the gut microbiota for you.
DrJM: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s one of the reasons why you want to pulse molecular hydrogen because you do get … If you’re healthy, and you have a healthy gut, you have sort, of a threshold level of molecular hydrogen. And we believe, that constant regular exposure to dripping it all day long might be good for some nutrients like zinc, or some other, magnesium. But, for hydrogen, it just doesn’t work that well, because you just have to just pulse to really spike it. To really get the most benefit. So that’s why taking a tablet once or twice, or maybe three times a day, or even a little more if you’re under EMF exposure and you’re traveling, might be a good strategy.
Reducing EMF While Traveling
DrMR: And we’ll link to, there’s a couple of products where literally you just have to buy a bottle of tablets and just drop them into your water. So, it’s not like it’s a hard fix. So, there’s a couple out there. I know Nordic Clinical has one.
DrJM: You just have to be careful to get the nanobubbles, because there are two types. You want to make sure it’s nine parts per million or nine milligrams per liter. Because the ones that aren’t you have to put it in a closed bottle. But, if it has the nanobubbles then you can have it on open container, and in about a minute or two, as soon as the tablet dissolves then you can swallow it. You don’t want to like sip on it, you want to swallow it down all at once. Otherwise, the molecular hydrogen is evaporated into the atmosphere.
DrMR: So, do you have a product there, that you like?
DrJM: We’re actually developing one. But, we can’t sell products just because of our internal codes, unless they’re GRAS, generally recognized as safe. And unfortunately, molecular hydrogen hasn’t reached that. So, we’ve been doing testing for about a year to get that certification.
There are a number of good products out there. Actually, you would be interested in this, I think. I can send you a case of it, too. Just send me your address. We did a product called Hydro Nitro, which is a can. And it’s a little more expensive, but it’s certainly less expensive than most energy drinks. And not only does it have molecular hydrogen, but it has CO2, which gives better benefits with the CO2, but it has fermented beets. Not regular beets, but fermented beets. So, you get this massive input of nitrates to form nitric oxide. So, it’s a great workout drink. I gave some to Ben Greenfield, he’s just like raving about it now.
DrMR: Oh awesome, yeah. I’ll shoot you my address after, I’d love to try it. And I know you have a book coming out, to bring us to a close. Do you want to tell people a little bit about the new book that you’re working on?
Episode Wrap Up
DrJM: Well, here’s the interesting thing. I’ve got two books coming out. One is Super Fuel, it comes out in November. And it’s about different types of fat. Because my last book was Fat for Fuel, and obviously you have to pick the right types of fat, otherwise, it could be even worse than not having fat, right? Bad fat is worse than no fat, or low fat. So that goes into those details. But the book I’m really excited about is Keto Fast. It’s a hybrid of ketosis, or cyclical ketosis and fasting. I was enamored with water fasting, but then as I came to study this and I was writing the book, I realized that there some serious problems with water fasting. And I’ve done like four or five-day water fasts, and I don’t think I’ll ever do it again. Because, when I did them, I didn’t realize that while obviously, you’re burning fat, and you go through a process called lipolysis where you’re breaking down the fats in your cells and using it for energy. But what’s stored in your fat, and for almost everyone listening to this, are plenty of toxins, fat-soluble toxins that we’ve stored over decades probably.
So, you’re liberating these fats, and unless you have a really refined and very precise detoxification protocol, you’re going to run into problems. And I think that’s one of the reasons, the primary reason why most people have side effects when they fast, because they liberate these toxins, and they’re just wreaking metabolic havoc on your body. So, I’ve developed this keto fast strategy. How to do that, which essentially, if you’re metabolically flexible, and you’re already burning fat for fuel, like you certainly are, or many of your listeners. Then you can progress right into it. You start with intermittent fasting, and you don’t eat for 18 hours, then the following day when you’re ready to eat your meal, you just have one meal about four to 600 calories. For you, it might be 700 calories because you got a lot of lean muscle mass. And, then you don’t eat for 24 hours.
But the food that you eat, you know, we’ve put out another book, called the Keto Fast Cookbook. What I’m really excited about is this seed smoothie I put together. And I talk about 15 different seeds that are full of phytochemicals. I mean, lots of the cruciferous vegetables they have all these glucosinolates that get converted to isothiocyanates, like sulforaphane. And there are literally dozens of others, that are just unbelievable. Probably some of the most important and profoundly effective phytochemicals in your body. And you soak these seeds overnight and you have this seed smoothie. And it’s actually something I have for my breakfast smoothie every day. So, I was going to put it in the book, one of the cookbooks. But, for some reason, it just didn’t work out, so I compiled this chapter. And I’m still not finished with it because I’m finding like… Like broccoli, everyone knows about broccoli and it’s used for sulforaphane, right?
Do you know what has even more sulforaphane than broccoli seeds? Which, is like one of the highest. Moringa seeds. You ever heard of moringa before? Moringa’s a subtropical plant because you can’t grow broccoli in the tropics right? But, you can grow Moringa. So, these other seeds, I mean, that is this storehouse of this powerful nutrition. So, if any of your listeners want to get this … I’ll send them this seed smoothie chapter. That book’s not coming out until May, of next year. But, I can send them this, and probably can have it done definitely by Thanksgiving, hopefully well before then. Just send, an email to [email protected] and then we’ll send you a copy of that chapter, which is probably going to have about 400 references in there, and all the different seeds that you can do. And, I think just that alone, even if you’re not doing the fasting, and integrate that into your food plan is going to have magnificent unbelievable impacts on your metabolism and your ability to prevent chronic degenerative disease.
DrMR: And so, how are you laying this out? Are you having someone do like a day of ketogenic dieting and then going to the 24 hour fast, or how is this sequenced?
DrJM: Yeah, that’s a good question. So, first of all, you’re metabolically flexible. And for someone who’s a newbie to this, they got to go through like, you know, my first book Fat for Fuel, or when you know, so, you’re metabolically flexible. Once you achieve that then you’re in cyclical ketosis, with a lot of intermittent fasting. Typically, at least 14 hours is bare but minimum. But, somewhere between 14 and 18 hours of intermittent fasting, so once you’re at that level. Or, you could just do intermittent fasting. Making sure you’re choosing the right foods, and high-quality foods, of course.
So, you go into that with 18 hours of intermittent fasting as I mentioned. So say, you stop eating at three O’clock in the afternoon, and then you normally have breakfast at nine AM, well that’s 18 hours, right? So after you fast for 18 hours then you have that seed smoothie, or you can have other foods, but I think that’s probably the most nutrient dense that’s going to support your liver for detox. And then, you know, it’s like six, 800 calories, if you need more calories you can add some more MCT oil or coconut oil. And then you don’t have anything for 24 hours. So essentially you’re doing 18 plus 24, which is a 42 hour fast.
So, on 600 calories, or 700. So, anywhere from 300. So, if it was a small woman who was really petite, like a 90 pound, 95-pound woman, then she’d have like 300 calories, right? But someone like you, it would be 700. So, you’d do 42 hours on that, and that is where you get maximized autophagy. You get stem cell activation, and you really get repair regeneration, and then you feast afterward. That’s the key because the magic of fasting occurs in the feast. And the beautiful thing about this is you can do it once or twice a week. And if you’re doing water fasting, you aren’t going to do that more than five, ten times days a year. Because it’s just too much of a stress on your body for most people.
I mean, somebody who’s already fit, like yourself? I don’t think you’d do it more than once a quarter, and probably twice a year. But, this partial fasting you can do almost every week, or even twice a week. So, it’s a profoundly effective strategy. And I think it allows you to reap the benefits. And it more closely replicates the eating patterns that we did of our ancient ancestors. Because there’s a thing there. I mean, a billion people on the planet today, probably still only have access to food 24/7. Most of us do, but our body was designed to go for regular periods without food. And I think rather than going for five days without food, I think it’s probably more likely that our ancestors went for shorter periods without food. For, a day, or two days, rather than five days.
DrMR: I really like this approach. I know one of the things that I had heard you discuss in the past was trying to build up to a four-day water fast.
DrJM: I don’t do that anymore. I will not.
DrMR: What I see in the clinic, is people have a really hard time doing that. But, this seems totally doable. So, I’m actually really excited to try the protocol. So, please keep me abreast.
DrJM: Yeah, we’re almost finished with the draft, so I’ll send you a copy. Because I would definitely appreciate your feedback. And especially your experience on it, because, you’re all ready to do it. I mean, you’re probably doing intermittent fasts, and you could start it this week. It’s just so simple to do.
DrMR: Yeah, I know. I’d love to. Definitely, please keep me in the loop.
DrJM: But, you address the big issue is one of the reasons that we came to this, was compliance. Compliance with the five-day water fast is close to zero.
DrMR: It’s a tough sell. Yeah, I understand. Cool, and do you have a title for the book, yet?
DrJM: It’s called Keto Fast. It’s coming out in May. Who knows, we might delay it. We’re really a little bit late in submitting it. But, I think it’s going to be a groundbreaking book. I mean, the last book, Fat for Fuel, was the number one non-fiction book in the U.S. I’m pretty sure this book will repeat it, so it’s good.
So again, [email protected], we’ll give you a free copy of the chapter that’s not going to be in the book.
DrMR: Alright, I’ve written it down, and I’m looking forward to trying it, and I will definitely report back to the audience. I have a few experiments I’ve been working on. So, I’m looking forward to kind of downloading the audience on these things.
DrJM: I would love that, and definitely let me know what you find out. Because, I think you’ll be very, very surprised. And most likely, you’ll lose about four or five pounds that day, but then you’ll gain it all back when you’re on your refeed. And you’ll build healthy tissue.
DrMR: I like it, no, it seems very, very doable. So, I’m excited about it. Anything else that you want to point people toward, as we wrap up?
DrJM: Yeah, I think that’s it. I think we covered most of the things. As I said, again, Nick’s book. Nick Pineault, I’m probably pronouncing his last name incorrectly. But it’s the Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMF, I think is what it is.
DrMR: Cool, we’ll link to that also in the show notes. Awesome, well Joe, thanks a lot. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this about EMF. And making us more aware of it. I’m also excited to try your protocol and read your book when it comes out.
DrJM: Yeah, it was probably the first podcast I even mentioned the book. Because, I’m just so excited about it, and plus that it probably won’t be out for sale for six months. It won’t be out for a while.
DrMR: So, this probably won’t air for about six weeks, so hopefully that will buffer some of the wait time for people. Awesome, well thanks again Joe, appreciate it.
What do you think? I would like to hear your thoughts or experience with this.
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